Curse

bhavv · Sep 01, 2007, 12:36 AM // 00:36

Ok, I just started NF hard mode. The first three missions I got done pretty easy. Then I moved onto Consulate docks and got caned. So I reskilled my heroes with different tactics. I got caned again. So Instead of 1 hero monk and a hench monk + warder + para, I took 2 hero monks, Vekk as a warder, and whatever I could find for damage from the henchmen. Devona and Gehraz got caned.

Is it a joke that ANET expect us to do this mission on HM without updating the henchmen skillbars to their normal ones? Khim uses for spells, FOUR SPELLS and those are Orison, RoF, PS, and Renew Life. On HM. I mean seriously is it my fault that I lose constantly when the henchmen have skill bars as bad as these with no elites on HM?

I'm going to retry it with a different H/H team, but I doubt it will make much difference

/rant over.

makosi · Sep 01, 2007, 12:42 AM // 00:42

I usually take 2 monks heroes, one 'tank' or damage dealer and the rest henchman. In particularly hard maps, i'll take a Prot Henchman because they're often better than healer henchmen.

Monk henchmen do need their skillbars reassessed, I would agree.

Brawn is better than brains so take as many eles as possible with SF and perhaps a MM. Don't try to be clever with spirits, paragon shouts or wards because they're not so practical in PvE.

bhavv · Sep 01, 2007, 12:46 AM // 00:46

No, all im using for heroes is 1 ellys, 2 monks, then Cynn, Herta, sogolon khim.

My monks are LoD with gwen skills + RC with aegis, elly is a modified Cynn GWEN bar with rodgorts invocation / mind blast / energy blast / glowing gaze / MS.

Ok, its working now with 3 monks, paragon and warder. But seriously, 5 defense chars and 3 fire ellys for damage? :x

Malice Black · Sep 01, 2007, 12:54 AM // 00:54

SS + Shock ele + Minions for cannon fodder

SS should provide reasonable dmg, use minions as cannon fodder and shock ele for knockdowns/dmg.

Should work.

bhavv · Sep 01, 2007, 01:24 AM // 01:24

Wooot!

Just used 3 fire ellys, 3 monks, para + warder lol.

Sekkira · Sep 01, 2007, 03:36 AM // 03:36

a bunch of warriors with orders behind them are still better damage dealers than eles

Keifru · Sep 01, 2007, 04:23 AM // 04:23

I used 4 henchies, my N/Rt healer guy, 2 SH eles, and me; the D/x.

Was a peice of cake.

Leonhart · Sep 01, 2007, 11:27 AM // 11:27

Just a tip, near the end where there are rows of bowmans, you can easily just use a ranger and make him use [skill]Whirling Defense[/skill] unless they use crossfire which I don't think they do. They will just eventually kill themselves as the ranger just stands there evading the arrows and dealing damage from the stance.

Evilsod · Sep 01, 2007, 11:32 AM // 11:32

Why? All of those Bowman mobs are stood at the tops of stair cases... conveniantly next to a wall, plus you can just hide below. If your getting killed because your stood in there line of sight you deserve to fail... SF/SS can wipe them all out easily and the melee can just wait until agro isn't on them.

bhavv · Sep 01, 2007, 12:01 PM // 12:01

For the bowmen I just used Aegis and Chained MS on them. The only problem was the elly boss who nearly wiped the whole party with meteor + fireball. 5 kills but fash henchie resses. Then kill after kill after kill, but the ressing managed to keep up.

so.... was A-nets vision of HM that it should be doable with these useless henchmen on noob island? I would rather see it harder and be able to use 7 heroes. Off to do pogahn passage now.

FelixCarter · Sep 01, 2007, 12:05 PM // 12:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhavv

Wooot!

Just used 3 fire ellys, 3 monks, para + warder lol.

Jora the Explora and I agree: needs more bacon.

Sorry, dude.

bhavv · Sep 01, 2007, 01:35 PM // 13:35

Party wiped in pogahn passage. I had me as SF, Barrage ranger, Crit barrage Zenmai, Command Para, Sogolon, herta, khim, mhenlo.

Evilsod · Sep 01, 2007, 02:36 PM // 14:36

The ele boss is annoying... i got lucky, his Aftershock almost killed him when a load of minions exploded around him.

bhavv · Sep 01, 2007, 10:23 PM // 22:23

Ok, I just cant seem to do pogahn passage. Ive tried the usuall 3 offense heroes + defensive hench, 2 monk

bhavv · Sep 01, 2007, 10:48 PM // 22:48

Pissed off with pugs again. I got into a pug for HM pogahn passage, and quit after refusal for the monk bar changes or to let me use my heroes:

Bar 3 wasnt bad, but I dont want healing touch on heroes ever. Bar 1 is like how is that hero meant to maintain their energy? Bar two was the human monk :x Also, Rebirth in HM when you cant even run away?

I just left.

Faer · Sep 01, 2007, 10:54 PM // 22:54

That first bar wouldn't be so bad after dropping Aura and Rebirth and picking up like, Gift and PS, or something. Not the most efficient thing in the world, but it'd be relatively decent.

bhavv · Sep 01, 2007, 11:47 PM // 23:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Faer

That first bar wouldn't be so bad after dropping Aura and Rebirth and picking up like, Gift and PS, or something. Not the most efficient thing in the world, but it'd be relatively decent.

I'm aware of that. I said please change skills 7 + 8 and he just wouldnt.

Im so god damn fed up with this mission. Either I can take 2 monk heroes and damage hench and then I cank kill anything fast enough, of I can take damage heroes + hench monks and just get pwned. No combination of anything is working so far.

Why oh why cant I just use 7 heroes?

Ive been asking in my guild + alliance chat all day for help. I offered to pay 2 k to anyone that helped me complete the mission with masters. I got one offer, then the person realised they didnt have pogahn passage on their map.

Pugs dont work. Friends dont work cos their busy doing something else (Playing GWEN), henchmen dont work.

Can we have 7 heroes yet?

Avarre · Sep 02, 2007, 12:01 AM // 00:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhavv

Im so god damn fed up with this mission. Either I can take 2 monk heroes and damage hench and then I cank kill anything fast enough, of I can take damage heroes + hench monks and just get pwned. No combination of anything is working so far.

You seem to be forgetting taking 1 Hero, 1 Hench (Kihm has ZB and is 9001% better than Mhenlo) monk, and then mixing up offense and defense (Para/SS/Fire ele heroes are decent, for example).

Relying entirely on hench for your offense or defense is, as you said, not the most effective method in many cases.

Astro Pubes · Sep 02, 2007, 12:42 AM // 00:42

Quote:

My monks are LoD with gwen skills + RC with aegis

Ok, first off, Heroes do not know how to use Restore Conditions. They are extremely horrible at using it! My experience with this is that they'd rather spam Dismiss Condition than to use Restore Condition once and cleanse it all.

And yes, Khim uses Zealous Benidiction, but she also spams that as her priority heal wasting 10e each time she casts it when you'd be better off getting hit with Orison or something of the likes.

Mhenlo is alright, he has Word of Healing but it's redundant to get healed by both Mhenlo and Khim at the same time when at 50% health as either skill would bring you back up to near full health.

Also, I use Rebirth all the time in HM, hell I'm almost Legendary Vanquisher and every time I've gone out I've had Rebirth on my bar, as well as a few of my heroes, the difference between you and me is I know how to Control + Click the skill so that my hero doesn't constantly spam rebirth when someone dies making my entire team useless.

Quote:

Party wiped in pogahn passage. I had me as SF, Barrage ranger, Crit barrage Zenmai, Command Para, Sogolon, herta, khim, mhenlo.

Trust me the problem isn't the Hench or the Heroes in many of the cases it's the players tbh. If you're running Searing Flames, you'd be more effective running with 2-3 Searing Flames eles at a time, that's where the power of SF comes in, it's not with one it's with spiking it, and heroes do know how to target the same AI as you, even if they are focused on someone else, you click the number by there name in the party window, and there's like a "sight/scope/target" thing you click that when you have the AI you want them to attack and they'll stay on that one AI until it's dead or you tell them other wise. Another thing I can personally see wrong with your build is there is absolutely no damage or support behind it. You have 2 Barragers hmm, ok cept every time i've tried to get my heroes to barrage they'd do everything except barrage... GG.

Your H/H team might start out strong but you are definitely losing steam probably mid-battle in a battle that takes more then a minute to fight.

So, I'm going to make a suggestion to you, to help you out some what take it for what it's worth a grain of salt or so.

1. I'd drop the 2 useless barragers, and opt for Zhed, Vekk or Souske for those two slots. Also, I would make either one or both Searing Flames but I would class them as Ele/Necro and drop a skill for Blood Ritual, trust me this 1 little spell on 2 of your party members will make a dramatic difference in your HM experience, you will no longer run out of steam mid-battle and everyone would have enough energy for "epic" battles.

2.I would change your bar to Ele/Monk and set Protection to about 8/9 if you could, reducing either your Fire or Energy Storage or both just a little and bring Aegis on your bar (if you don't already do this).

3. Your Monk, what to say what to say, I started off running a Word of Healing monk, but found it to be redundant when I also had Mhenlo in my group, I don't really care much for LoD as I think it's Anet's way of allowing really horrible monks to get in groups by just spamming LoD, Heal Party, Aegis and Rebirth (This is Aside from Urgoz) I'm talking about any NM/HM mission... So I dropped my Healing Monk all together for my Protection monk, who runs Life Sheath and does an amazing job with it! Also if you flag your H/H back and pre-Prot up yourself and pull and hold mobs you'd be suprised about how fast you can actually kill things.

Sorry if you felt as though I ripped into you on this, but honestly I'm just sick and tired of people complaining about Heroes and Hench and how "bad" their AI is when it's clearly the person doesn't understand the Hench and how to flag and use them properly.

-Astro-

Lord Natural · Sep 02, 2007, 12:46 AM // 00:46

If you're having many problems this early, you will get rocked in some of the later missions. I got the NF guardian title using H&H (eventually), but I was monking for it, which freed up an extra hero slot. H&H monks are fine sometimes, but they tend to get rocked around AoE, since they sometimes glitch and just run around, not casting. If you're not monking yourself, you will probably have to stick with 2 hero monks for some areas, unless your team build has good support and damage mitigation.